This is a really interesting discussion which highlights some of the peculiarities of the cycling world, old hands views and up and comers ideas.
The club team work or alliances with friends and enemies adds that dimension to the sport that often is referred to as chess on wheels. Win at all costs also has a place.
I'm glad anonymous posts have been barred and since we are a club, by definition just a group of friends, then we should respect everybody else's opinion and allow them to ride as they personally wish. maybe a few more verbal discussions before races will help, maybe some 'team management' like Epic??
Guys - Where ever this is going, I have to agree with Mr Wheeler.
Regarding helping club members my position is certainly clear - I DO AND WILL ALWAYS HELP WHERE I CAN TO ASSIST CLUB AND NON CLUB MEMEBERS IN THEIR SPORT AND ACHIEVING THEIR GOALS. I am also competitive equal to all guys and girls in the club especially the road racers. So please do not post perceptions.
If there is an opportunity to pass on and share the experince and coaching in racing tactics and ethics that have been mentioned then maybe those with this knoweledge if willing can organise something for all members to benefit from.
Apologies for assisting in driving this thread in the wrong direction together with others.
See you all at next club TT and good luck to all in forth coming races. Go out there enjoy it and do your best on the day. Go home feeling good and positively motivated for the next time.
Im sure Adam can stick up for himself,and has made his position quite clear.
I would also like to know who the annon poster is who agreed with Adam, cos I would like to know if I will be racing against him/her and I should help them or not.
As for prospective members then surely the fact that we look after each other is a good thing?
As Mark says there are a lot of unwritten laws in cycling (for good reasons) and I for one as a traditionalist will carry on adhearing to them.
The argument that this is just club racing cuts both ways. To me it means putting friendship and loyalty above scoring a handful of points and a few quid.
If you don't like sitting in, race hard and make the break (so I can have a rest ). If it's win or nothing, race as a private member with a free conscience. But don't abuse the trust and ruin races for your mates who follow this unwritten rule.
PS
Can't we disable Anonymous posting? If you've got something to say, stick your neck out with your real name attached!
I wasn't at the race so I don't know exactly what happened but the general rule is that you don't chase your team mates down. It's all experience though and no harm was done.
I think the real question is how did Matt or Joe not win?? Surely they could have worked the other rider over??
-- Edited by Birdy on Saturday 14th of May 2011 11:08:06 PM
Not at all, I think most club members who i have ridden with will confirm that i'll do as much work at the front as anyone and will encourage all - Last weekend i put myself at the front of a race to chase down the lead group that were 2 mins ahead, perhaps to my own detrement myself and a couple of others got the gap down to 10 seconds and allowed others to bridge the gap (unfortunately i was a little spent and lost position for the final sprint) I'm simply saying that if your racing at our level and are not in an agreed upfront structure you are competing to get the best result you can for yourself. If i had agreed to work for someone and tactically hold up a group then thats what i would do. But why would i do that? and i think it is a bit of cheek to actually ask a non professional in the sport to sacrifice a potential result. When nearlly all of us do it for fun and self achievement and the personal feel good factor.
ASH wrote:
So does this mean that you have no intension of being a team member? You wont want or accept any help if you need it? and wont give any in return?
Adam, agree entirely, strongest man should win, we're not being paid, we're competing for the fun of it and if the lead guy can't hold off the bunch, so what, he's not the strongest man. Don't worry, carry on raciing for fun. When we're pro's we can worry about team orders.
a, As alluded to below. Well a win for the team is a win. and ok this isn't pro ranks but the Saints get headlines. I do know comassaires that if one team has significant numbers frown on team tactics and just deliberate blocking. As you say at this level the sport is more individual than team.
b, By letting the other teams chase, you rest. and the blocking mentioned is a seperate issue, but you are then fresher at the end for the sprint. which is a bonus to you if the breakawy comes back. Counter attack!
But as someone who sat and watched the race.
I will say this. You need to signal people to come through, move over and build the chase, make the other rider work. Roadies do not come to the front if you are prepared to pound the pedals like a 10 TT. While chasing is your choice not many people will chase down 3 people working together. For my opinion you were prepared to do to much work. Yell at a few others 3 more working in the bunch would have made the a breakaway come back. Plus the energy you put on road chasing would have done you in for the sprint. remember they were resting you were working.
just had a couple of glasses of wine and read this string! Think the statement is - There is no "U" in team but there is in ?? I have done racing in Britsh championship and European (motorbikes)and if I am in a race I am in it to win and at our level that means you are there to beat all others - on the day there are always factors that mean you may not be able to win or perform to your best but if you are racing and are of a competitive nature you are there to win not try and spoil the game for others.
Sometimes i think people have the wrong perspective of the level that we are competing in. bit like parent pressure at a schoolboy football match.
My view is get out there enjoy it. do the best you can on the day and if you are competitive target to win and see what happens and then look to improve. For myself i haven't done many races and I am still learning when to make the break and stick with the breakaway (this is when im in the rightmood/ condition!) sometimes i get it right and others not - Earlier this week i got it wrong but if i had been on a good night i would have attempted to chase down the lead group with the intention of winning. Ill go back to my wine now and leave mr anonymous to his/her own opinion of CLUB RACING.
the idea when you have a team mate in the break is not to try and catch him,it is accepted that you do nothing - you dont go on the front and try to chase him down!!
Well done to Matt for a second in the race. For me - I have done approx 6500 miles in the last year with not 1 puncture on the road I go to a closed circuit and get the biggest screw around stuck in my rear tyre with 3 laps to go. I was feeling tired anyway and made the wrong decision to stay in the main group thinking that we would work together to catch the front group. Not too many guys wanted to work in my group to catch up so at least getting a puncture gave me an early rest. Not the biggest fan of crits racing although i can manage ok in them if i stick with the front bunch for the sprint.
Dont forget its the stourport crits tonight there will be youth race a 4th cat race and a 2/3 cat race. 4th cat is ideal if you want to have a go,but why not come over and just watch? racing starts at 6.30 4th cats at 7.00
). If it's win or nothing, race as a private member with a free conscience. But don't abuse the trust and ruin races for your mates who follow this unwritten rule.
Why would chasing yourclub mates down be bad form?
